@rime you were looking into lie detectors and their SOTA, right? Any good resources?
I've become convinced this might be really really important, thanks to you
To say that I've "looked into it" would be a big exaggeration, but I've looked into it.
The main reason I've been interested in it is: mass adoption of "veracity/credibility tech"¹ seems potentially extremely good for culture and maybe pivotal wrt many large-scale longterm stuff I care abt.
¹(idionym for stuff that helps us prove that we're being honest *when we actually are*)
@niplav There are many levels/dimensions of this w varying degrees of technological feasibility. I think most of the value is unlocked when the tech is (directly or indirectly) relevant to more or less ordinary social interactions, and can interfere w stuff lk "deception arms races"/"iterative escalation of social deception"/"deceptive equilibria".
@niplav But below that, just making it harder to get away w obviously antisocial behaviour (like theft, lying in order to tarnish smbody's reputation / get them fired, etc) seems tremendous. What if being a sociopath makes you unfit for being a politician?
Whew.
For most scenarios that I think are pivotal, I think the tech has to be scalable/cheap, highly accurate, hard-to-hack, and launched by a highly reputable company (preferentially nonprofit, open-source—I'm allowed to dream).
@niplav
fMRI-machines are currently too inaccessible.
Making it hard-to-hack is hard.
Doing the processing on a server, and providing instant results via app connected to the web, may make this more feasible.
If it's a hat, and it needs to be tailored to each individual via upfront calibration at a clinic, the clinic can record your signature and compare it with whatever their servers receive whenever you put your hat on later.
@niplav Perhaps the most impressive examples of brain-reading tech in the vicinity of lie-detection is semantic reconstruction, eg:
BCI Award 2023 #1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1rctJd37a8&list=PL_JwSzOwE-dS0u9NNhv8__XktdDZaq_ML
BCI Award 2022 #2: https://twitter.com/guillefix/status/1679178300508504064
@niplav But semantic reconstruction requires >10h in an fMRI machine while calibrating a GPT-like predictor based on e.g. your brain's recognition of audiobook, and I'm unsure how much the training-hours can be optimized. Also not sure whether smth-like-this generalizes to learning to neurally differentiate self-believed statements and self-unbelieved statements with sufficient accuracy. But just based on vibes, the impressiveness of the technology makes me think lie-detection is more feasible.
@niplav Oh, and I should add just in case: If you plan on writing about it, you're not "scooping" me or any such nonsense. The draft is tiny, 2 years old and I don't plan on picking it up. Yet I really hope somebody makes a good post for the whole ideabag. Please do!
@rime i can add my stuff to the draft and we co-publish?
But probably not before August on my side
@niplav I wud *prefer* u did all and posted w u's own name :p
tho I not net-disprefer name-on-post.
I is financially secure and do a fairly indep agenda (q ib to remain indep for alst ~2 add years?), so marginal reputation points is not much usefwl for me.
fm my perspective, utility of q post, is entirely its altruism—q ib is substantial (tho risky), so I hope u publish.
I can prob review/comment/take-questions or smth, tho, if wish.
ib↦"I believe"
q↦anaphor (incl "which")
indep↦〃-endent
@niplav o i forgor: "alst"↦"at least".
forgor↦forgor
@rime many thanks for sharing
@niplav j some link:
"An increase in selfish motivation for Pareto lies was associated with higher mean-level activity in both ventral and rostral mPFC. The former showed an increased pattern similarity to selfish lies, and the latter showed a decreased pattern similarity to altruistic lies. … Our findings demonstrated that hidden selfish motivation in white lies can be revealed by neural representation in the mPFC."
https://www.jneurosci.org/content/41/27/5937
Identifying true motivation for Pareto lies, which are mutually beneficial for both the liar and others, can be challenging because different covert motivations…
Journal of Neuroscience