i think my favorite settler rejoinder is "just wait til you get a job and pay bills! then you won't like this socialism stuff!" like holy hell you became LESS class conscious when you joined the working class? lmao @ your life
@georgespolitzer hardly anyone in the West now joins anything historically recognisable as the working class. We are all bourgeois now.
Once the 'iron law of wages' turned out to actually be flimsy plastic the main rationale for socialism disappeared.
Which is why its advocates now have to manufacture ever more outlandish theories of why 'class struggle' is real, while ignoring the only real exploitative class (the political class) as that's the one they themselves want to join.
@soundnfury we do not all own the means of production lmao come on. at least try to troll me correctly
@georgespolitzer Share ownership is accessible to people well below the median salary even while maintaining a lifestyle that would seem luxurious to people of Marx's time. Not capitalism's fault if most of them choose to instead take still greater consumption in the moment.
Also, most workers today have a private pension, which (at least while they're young) has a large equities component.
@soundnfury your info is completely wrong and is basically this image. shut up right winger lmao. no, most workers do not have pension access, most workers in the united states can't even retire. "share ownership" does not refer to the means of production. but then again, you think everyone is bourgeois (definitional impossibility) and that the bourgeois isn't exploitative (lol) and the real exploiters are the political class (not a class and please just say jews next time, it's more to the point of what you and your kind mean ). dare I ask where youre getting any of this info or definitions from???
@georgespolitzer wait, you think I think the political class are *Jews*? The group *most* famed for being merchants and capitalists (and widely hated and persecuted by socialists down to the present day for just that reason)?
@soundnfury no, I'm saying that's basically what you're saying
@georgespolitzer So you're saying I'm saying a thing that I'm not saying 'cos it's the opposite of what I'm saying, and when I say that's not what I'm saying you say I'm wrong to say that because you weren't saying I was saying that you were just saying that was basically what I was saying? WTH are you trying to say?
@georgespolitzer OK, we've reached the "you ascribing beliefs to me that I do not hold" phase of this. I do not in fact "think class is purely how much income you make". Rather, income is one of the factors that determines your ability to enter some classes, but is generally neither necessary or sufficient.
You are essentialising and oversimplifying.
@soundnfury no, essentializing and oversimplifying is the notion that class is literally anything but your relationship to a mode of production.
@soundnfury you think the political class is a meaningful class and you think class is purely how much income you make. I think you are a confused neoliberal child who is simping for an economic system that is exploitative for the world and going to cause an extinction event unless humanity switches to a centrally planned economy.