You can hardly find a studio the works of which are so thoughtful, kind, and intentional as Studio Ghibli. To stripmine that for its aesthetics, to take a piece of cardboard and paint it like food and say "See, doesn't this taste just as good?" is more than missing the point, it's barbaric, dystopian. It's an insult to life itself. #OpenAI
The negative reaction to lots of non-artists getting the chance to make something they find aesthetically nice and imitating a style they admire is insane.
No person who types a few words into ChatGPT is going to start thinking of themself as better than Miyazaki.
I can understand criticizing the way OpenAI is profiting from this, but please don't call regular people trying out a new tool barbaric and dystopian.
@Gargron
That's actually a great analogy.
You're not a cook because you picked ingredients for a sandwich someone else makes, just like you're not an artist because you chose the subject matter of low effort AI-generated pictures.
But you can still have fun picking out good ingredients and enjoy the result!
@satchlj @Gargron for that analogy to work, we'd have to be talking about people commissioning artists to mimic Miyazaki's style.
Instead we're talking about a machine built on stolen art and consuming literal tons of water and so much electricity that their companies are buying and reopening old power plants.
Maybe I'm wrong here but what I've been told is that energy consumption from modern AI is next to nothing compared to things like streaming videos or making video calls.
Unless you don't think that's true (in which case please tell me why), or you never stream videos or make video calls, you're the pot calling the kettle black.
@satchlj @Gargron
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tech-companies-signing-nuclear-deals-211710797.html
They consume so much power that they need to buy power plants only for themselves.
https://www.newsweek.com/why-ai-so-thirsty-data-centers-use-massive-amounts-water-1882374
Their data centers need so much water for cooling that they're drying out whole towns.
Video calls and streaming never got to those requirements, in fact the bulk of processing for those tend to run on the users devices.
@satchlj @Gargron the power consumption graph is about the household usage.
The power consumed by the users device when using LLM Chatbots is very low, because the power consumption is happening at the data center.
The water consumption graph must have some similar weird caveat, lying with statistics is as old as the invention of statistics.
It's also worth noting that generating images is a heavier workload than chatbots, so you're comparing apples to oranges.
@satchlj @Gargron I've written about this in other places, but the accessibility argument here also really fundamentally misunderstands what art is.
Who told you that you weren't an artist and that this AI slop is better than even the most basic scribbles you put down on a page?
"Non-artist": what does that even mean? Do you express things? Do you have emotions? Want to communicate them? You're an artist.
@satchlj @Gargron The accessibility argument is based on tearing down beautiful things because they're not standardized enough. It's based on dividing people up into artists and non-artists, and then frames this like the critics are the ones gatekeeping.
I'm angry at OpenAI for robbing the world of things you might otherwise create, and I don't care whether those things would have looked perfectly like another artist's art style.
I fully agree there's no quality bar to making art. And you can turn that the other way to apply to AI - even if it's low quality, it's still a valid form of expression!
If you're angry that AI image generation might stop people from becoming 'actual' artists, maybe get angry at camera technology for stopping photographers from becoming painters?
This is one more step in the same direction.
@satchlj @Gargron this is exactly what I mean when I say that people don't understand art at all.
The "quality" is not the problem, the problem is that you have robbed yourself of artistic intent and that the choices and information in the final thing don't reflect you or communicate anything about your original idea.
Look I understand this completely and it's a valid reason artists might choose not to use AI tools. But surely you see that the same is true with photography - the image is a lot less expression and a lot more of something else.
@satchlj @foxyoreos This is a common tactic among AI advocates and it is disingenious. Photography as an art form revolves around documenting reality, which immediately puts it at odds with generative AI, which has no concept of reality and can only regurgitate amalgamations of stolen artworks. Furthermore, the camera does not make the photo. The camera does not make the choice of where the photographer goes, where they point it, how they arrange the composition. It is a learned and honed skill.
Generative AI is the common place where you can blame their programmers, their users and the result they produce as utterly garbage.
A dispose unit to throw all of it is needed.
Sure, everyone is an artist. What I mean when I say non-artist is people who don't usually spend lots of time making art, who haven't put effort into developing a skill that helps them express themselves artistically
And I'm not saying low effort AI generated pictures are inherently better than basic scribbles in every sense, I'm saying that they open different creative outlets
@satchlj @Gargron expression is not whether or not you can immitate a line style.
Expression is a series of choices that communicate something. These models *don't* let "non-artists" express themselves, that's my point. They rob them of their expression.
You're not expressing anything at all by putting a Ghibli filter on a photo. Doing anything else, redrawing the photo in MS Paint with a mouse - that would be more communicative.
@satchlj @Gargron It's the equivalent of Burger King telling you to express yourself with what burger you buy.
It feeds into this really harmful sentiment that you need to go through a company and reduce yourself to a mass-produced product in order to be valued or communicate.
You don't. Have some pride in yourself.
Putting a Ghibli filer on a photo isn't that expressive, I agree. There are other reasons someone might want to do it, like fun. Or, it emphasizes certain aspects of the photo that weren't emphasized before, to be charitable.
Not so for the more general case, especially when someone is carefully and repeatedly prompting a model.
Also, there's lots of human expression that isn't a series of choices. Artists have put urinals in museum galleries and improv performance art.
I'm saying it's not a series of choices. It's one idea and one choice. Kind of like the one idea and choice that might lead to a single prompt? So maybe one prompt can be art?
Perhaps - but the prompt wasn't conceived as a text to be published, it was conceived as an image prompt.
That's all from me on this topic for now. Thanks for engaging.
@foxyoreos @satchlj @Gargron someone whom I know started to post on social media AI generated texts where he put a prompt about some matters related to spam.
I tried to read one of them not even knowing at the beginning how it was "created" and had this immediate vibe it isn't him, these too round shaped sentences with a lot of nothing.
I gave up after a few sentences.
I'd rather like to read his original thoughts, even if there were grammar mistakes.
To me it is equally ethical as paying someone to write your thesis.
@foxyoreos @satchlj @Gargron I don't know if it is barbaric, stealing and plagiarism definitely.
yeah, it's definitely very bad to try to pass off AI generated content as your own. That's lying.
Even if you acknowledge that an LLM made a text or image, there are good and bad ways to share that. You usually don't want the reader to begin without knowing how the text was made.
@satchlj “Getting the chance to make something”—don’t be ridiculous, there is no bar to making art except effort. Pick up a pencil, look up tutorials online and start drawing. And the idea that telling ChatGPT to produce some slop for you is “making” it is delusional. Are you a cook because you pick ingredients for your sandwich at a fast food place?